Paid VAT to import second hand from Spain

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Subject:

Paid VAT to import second hand from Spain

 ·  Posted: 04.06.2024  ·  #1

I bought from a company in Spain, over here now waiting to drive back. Its second hand 2019 reg. Once I provide evidence of registration in Ireland, they will refund the VAT, so no problem there.

My question is, will the Irish government want me to pay VAT on this? I thought that as its a used vehicle that I will not be subject to VAT in Ireland. Is that correct?

Apologies if this is repeating a previous question. I have spent some time going through previous posts but couldn't find this specific question.

Regards
Waterford Guy

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<BM>

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Subject:

Re: Paid VAT to import second hand from Spain

 ·  Posted: 04.06.2024  ·  #2

There is no VAT payable on any second hand vehicle imported to Ireland from within the EU with the exception of ultra low mileage vehicles which can be treated as new.

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Re: Paid VAT to import second hand from Spain

 ·  Posted: 04.06.2024  ·  #3

Okay that's good. It's what I thought but I think I'm just seeking reassurance!

Maybe someone who understands the VAT system better could explain to me why dealers have to charge VAT on a second hand vehicle anyway?

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Re: Paid VAT to import second hand from Spain

 ·  Posted: 04.06.2024  ·  #4

There's no VAT charged on second-hand sales. VAT is an EU tax and is only payable once when the item is sold new.

If buying a new item for export the seller can complete the sale VAT free but may charge the tax and refund it after proof of payment in the country of import has been provided.

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Re: Paid VAT to import second hand from Spain

 ·  Posted: 04.06.2024  ·  #5

Quote by Waterford guy

Okay that's good. It's what I thought but I think I'm just seeking reassurance!

Maybe someone who understands the VAT system better could explain to me why dealers have to charge VAT on a second hand vehicle anyway?

It's a mute point as the displayed retail sale price must include any applicable VAT

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Subject:

Re: Paid VAT to import second hand from Spain

 ·  Posted: 05.06.2024  ·  #6

Quote by baguette

There's no VAT charged on second-hand sales. VAT is an EU tax and is only payable once when the item is sold new.

If buying a new item for export the seller can complete the sale VAT free but may charge the tax and refund it after proof of payment in the country of import has been provided.

I'm purchasing second hand in Spain. I have been charged VAT. I've already paid it. Upon proof of registration in Ireland I'll get a refund for the VAT amount.

In Ireland, I also see several dealerships promoting second hand sales (vans especially) sometime the price includes VAT sometimes not. But I don't think including the VAT in the sale price makes it a moot point. It doesn't explain why the government are taking and VAT on a second hand sale.

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Subject:

Paid VAT to import second hand from Spain

 ·  Posted: 05.06.2024  ·  #7

Quote by Waterford guy

Quote by baguette

There's no VAT charged on second-hand sales. VAT is an EU tax and is only payable once when the item is sold new.

If buying a new item for export the seller can complete the sale VAT free but may charge the tax and refund it after proof of payment in the country of import has been provided.

I'm purchasing second hand in Spain. I have been charged VAT. I've already paid it. Upon proof of registration in Ireland I'll get a refund for the VAT amount.

In Ireland, I also see several dealerships promoting second hand sales (vans especially) sometime the price includes VAT sometimes not. But I don't think including the VAT in the sale price makes it a moot point. It doesn't explain why the government are taking and VAT on a second hand sale.

( "a refund for the VAT amount " from who ? )

I don't understand why you are surprised, every sale of goods to the Public in Ireland is VAT included, the only way way can buy without VAT, is if your are in Business and are Vat registered, but if your then selling on, you have to add vat.
Whether we like it or not it's how the the Country is run. The current marked value for all goods is the vat included Price, you or I would not sell your Motorhome or car to anyone without the Vat included, its how we all get a little of the Vat Back .unless we get more for it, than we paid, then we get more vat, what I don't understand is why anyone is offering you the VAT refund, and I'd be surprised if revenue find you get a refund, they don't come looking for their pound of flesh, you have to lodge the sales invoice with them with all your paperwork.

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Subject:

Re: Paid VAT to import second hand from Spain

 ·  Posted: 05.06.2024  ·  #8

While VRT has to be paid on imported vehicles, there is no VAT to be paid, unless it's a new vehicle which had been exported VAT free from the country of origin.
I'm not in the trade so I don't know the rules for sales and purchases between VAT registered entities.
I know plenty of individuals who have imported secondhand vehicles from France and Germany and a refund of VAT from the seller, private or trade, never entered the picture.
I think your Spanish seller is maybe a little mixed up regarding the issue.

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<BM>

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Subject:

Re: Paid VAT to import second hand from Spain

 ·  Posted: 05.06.2024  ·  #9

Quote by Waterford guy

Quote by baguette

There's no VAT charged on second-hand sales. VAT is an EU tax and is only payable once when the item is sold new.

If buying a new item for export the seller can complete the sale VAT free but may charge the tax and refund it after proof of payment in the country of import has been provided.

I'm purchasing second hand in Spain. I have been charged VAT. I've already paid it. Upon proof of registration in Ireland I'll get a refund for the VAT amount.

In Ireland, I also see several dealerships promoting second hand sales (vans especially) sometime the price includes VAT sometimes not. But I don't think including the VAT in the sale price makes it a moot point. It doesn't explain why the government are taking and VAT on a second hand sale.

A VAT registered business can purchase a commercial vehicle ex VAT on the basis that it is being used in the provision of VAT chargeable services. It only applies to commercial vehicles and if the vehicle is ever sold to a non VAT registered business or private individual, VAT is paid on that transaction.

As for Spain, is the VAT itemised on the invoice? What % of the transaction does it amount to? Could the Camper have been a rental, bought ex VAT by the rental company with VAT charged on rental transactions and VAT is chargable on the sale to a private individual? Perhaps it's the dealers margin is VAT chargeable?

Regardless, VAT is not chargeable on import of a second hand vehicle from an EU country to Ireland.

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Subject:

Paid VAT to import second hand from Spain

 ·  Posted: 05.06.2024  ·  #10

Quote by baguette

While VRT has to be paid on imported vehicles, there is no VAT to be paid, unless it's a new vehicle which had been exported VAT free from the country of origin.
I'm not in the trade so I don't know the rules for sales and purchases between VAT registered entities.
I know plenty of individuals who have imported secondhand vehicles from France and Germany and a refund of VAT from the seller, private or trade, never entered the picture.
I think your Spanish seller is maybe a little mixed up regarding the issue.

That would be my thinking also, the price from new is inclusive of vat, and the price, follows it for it's ife based on condition and year, so there is always an element of vat in the sale price. No matter where you buy. If you bought a bottle of wine in Germany, France, Spain, there would be vat on it, I don't see anywhere along the line where you would be intitled to ir refunded.
But if someone is going to give it to you, geab it with both hands.

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Subject:

Re: Paid VAT to import second hand from Spain

 ·  Posted: 05.06.2024  ·  #11

Quote by <BM>

Quote by Waterford guy

Quote by baguette

There's no VAT charged on second-hand sales. VAT is an EU tax and is only payable once when the item is sold new.

If buying a new item for export the seller can complete the sale VAT free but may charge the tax and refund it after proof of payment in the country of import has been provided.

I'm purchasing second hand in Spain. I have been charged VAT. I've already paid it. Upon proof of registration in Ireland I'll get a refund for the VAT amount.

In Ireland, I also see several dealerships promoting second hand sales (vans especially) sometime the price includes VAT sometimes not. But I don't think including the VAT in the sale price makes it a moot point. It doesn't explain why the government are taking and VAT on a second hand sale.

A VAT registered business can purchase a commercial vehicle ex VAT on the basis that it is being used in the provision of VAT chargeable services. It only applies to commercial vehicles and if the vehicle is ever sold to a non VAT registered business or private individual, VAT is paid on that transaction.

As for Spain, is the VAT itemised on the invoice? What % of the transaction does it amount to? Could the Camper have been a rental, bought ex VAT by the rental company with VAT charged on rental transactions and VAT is chargable on the sale to a private individual? Perhaps it's the dealers margin is VAT chargeable?

Regardless, VAT is not chargeable on import of a second hand vehicle from an EU country to Ireland.

Thank you, the first paragraph explains the Irish situation.

Regarding Spain, yes, the VAT is itemised. I actually had to do two seperate transfers. One for the vehicle, one for the VAT which will be returned once I show I have registered the vehicle in Ireland. The VAT is 21% in Spain for this transaction.

From what the lady tells me, they need to insure I register the vehicle and look after my tax duties (VRT) in Ireland. Because its a second hand vehicle and does not incur VAT charges, they will refund me the VAT once I prove it has been registered in Ireland. Apparently, if I bought it from them without any VAT and did not register it in Ireland, they would be liable for some kind of payment. So I'm not actually being charged VAT for a second hand purchase, it's more of a deposit to ensure I look after my VRT responsibilities in Ireland.... I think!

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Re: Paid VAT to import second hand from Spain

 ·  Posted: 05.06.2024  ·  #12

Quote by sprinter

Quote by baguette

While VRT has to be paid on imported vehicles, there is no VAT to be paid, unless it's a new vehicle which had been exported VAT free from the country of origin.
I'm not in the trade so I don't know the rules for sales and purchases between VAT registered entities.
I know plenty of individuals who have imported secondhand vehicles from France and Germany and a refund of VAT from the seller, private or trade, never entered the picture.
I think your Spanish seller is maybe a little mixed up regarding the issue.

That would be my thinking also, the price from new is inclusive of vat, and the price, follows it for it's ife based on condition and year, so there is always an element of vat in the sale price. No matter where you buy. If you bought a bottle of wine in Germany, France, Spain, there would be vat on it, I don't see anywhere along the line where you would be intitled to ir refunded.
But if someone is going to give it to you, geab it with both hands.

I think we agree (although i dont follow your explanation of the VAT following the life cycle of the product, thats a conversation that would be a lot easier in person), but it's confusing. See my reply above to BM.

The reason I'm being given a refund is because I shouldn't actually be charged it in the first place.

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<BM>

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Subject:

Re: Paid VAT to import second hand from Spain

 ·  Posted: 05.06.2024  ·  #13

Quote by Waterford guy

Quote by <BM>

Quote by Waterford guy

Quote by baguette

There's no VAT charged on second-hand sales. VAT is an EU tax and is only payable once when the item is sold new.

If buying a new item for export the seller can complete the sale VAT free but may charge the tax and refund it after proof of payment in the country of import has been provided.

I'm purchasing second hand in Spain. I have been charged VAT. I've already paid it. Upon proof of registration in Ireland I'll get a refund for the VAT amount.

In Ireland, I also see several dealerships promoting second hand sales (vans especially) sometime the price includes VAT sometimes not. But I don't think including the VAT in the sale price makes it a moot point. It doesn't explain why the government are taking and VAT on a second hand sale.

A VAT registered business can purchase a commercial vehicle ex VAT on the basis that it is being used in the provision of VAT chargeable services. It only applies to commercial vehicles and if the vehicle is ever sold to a non VAT registered business or private individual, VAT is paid on that transaction.

As for Spain, is the VAT itemised on the invoice? What % of the transaction does it amount to? Could the Camper have been a rental, bought ex VAT by the rental company with VAT charged on rental transactions and VAT is chargable on the sale to a private individual? Perhaps it's the dealers margin is VAT chargeable?

Regardless, VAT is not chargeable on import of a second hand vehicle from an EU country to Ireland.

Thank you, the first paragraph explains the Irish situation.

Regarding Spain, yes, the VAT is itemised. I actually had to do two seperate transfers. One for the vehicle, one for the VAT which will be returned once I show I have registered the vehicle in Ireland. The VAT is 21% in Spain for this transaction.

From what the lady tells me, they need to insure I register the vehicle and look after my tax duties (VRT) in Ireland. Because its a second hand vehicle and does not incur VAT charges, they will refund me the VAT once I prove it has been registered in Ireland. Apparently, if I bought it from them without any VAT and did not register it in Ireland, they would be liable for some kind of payment. So I'm not actually being charged VAT for a second hand purchase, it's more of a deposit to ensure I look after my VRT responsibilities in Ireland.... I think!

Sounds a bit strange unless they refund VAT to the previous owner as a matter of course in Spain, maybe they do, or else it could be a case of the previous owner being VAT registered and renting it out as I mentioned above. The good news is that if you do get a refund, you'll fall between the cracks here. There used to be an anomaly pre brexit where dealer demo cars in the UK could be sold for export ex VAT, once they had 6k on the clock or whatever the threshold was, Irish revenue never charged that VAT even though it was never paid in the UK.

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Subject:

Paid VAT to import second hand from Spain

 ·  Posted: 05.06.2024  ·  #14

Quote by Waterford guy

Quote by sprinter

Quote by baguette

While VRT has to be paid on imported vehicles, there is no VAT to be paid, unless it's a new vehicle which had been exported VAT free from the country of origin.
I'm not in the trade so I don't know the rules for sales and purchases between VAT registered entities.
I know plenty of individuals who have imported secondhand vehicles from France and Germany and a refund of VAT from the seller, private or trade, never entered the picture.
I think your Spanish seller is maybe a little mixed up regarding the issue.

That would be my thinking also, the price from new is inclusive of vat, and the price, follows it for it's life based on condition and year, so there is always an element of vat in the sale price. No matter where you buy. If you bought a bottle of wine in Germany, France, Spain, there would be vat on it, I don't see anywhere along the line where you would be entitled to it refunded.
But if someone is going to give it to you, grab it with both hands.

I think we agree (although i don't follow your explanation of the VAT following the life cycle of the product, that's a conversation that would be a lot easier in person), but it's confusing. See my reply above to BM.

The reason I'm being given a refund is because I shouldn't actually be charged it in the first place.

when you have it all done , come over to the Hook one weekend and we will happily raise a glass or Two and discuss.
At the end of the day, no one has a reliable explanation for the refund, but what to hell it sounds like you have found a way to get 21% off the price of the Van, congratulations that's a winner

Anyway what did you Buy any Photo's details. when are you home with it.

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Waterford guy

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Subject:

Re: Paid VAT to import second hand from Spain

 ·  Posted: 05.06.2024  ·  #15

Quote by <BM>

Quote by Waterford guy

Quote by <BM>

Quote by Waterford guy

Quote by baguette

There's no VAT charged on second-hand sales. VAT is an EU tax and is only payable once when the item is sold new.

If buying a new item for export the seller can complete the sale VAT free but may charge the tax and refund it after proof of payment in the country of import has been provided.

I'm purchasing second hand in Spain. I have been charged VAT. I've already paid it. Upon proof of registration in Ireland I'll get a refund for the VAT amount.

In Ireland, I also see several dealerships promoting second hand sales (vans especially) sometime the price includes VAT sometimes not. But I don't think including the VAT in the sale price makes it a moot point. It doesn't explain why the government are taking and VAT on a second hand sale.

A VAT registered business can purchase a commercial vehicle ex VAT on the basis that it is being used in the provision of VAT chargeable services. It only applies to commercial vehicles and if the vehicle is ever sold to a non VAT registered business or private individual, VAT is paid on that transaction.

As for Spain, is the VAT itemised on the invoice? What % of the transaction does it amount to? Could the Camper have been a rental, bought ex VAT by the rental company with VAT charged on rental transactions and VAT is chargable on the sale to a private individual? Perhaps it's the dealers margin is VAT chargeable?

Regardless, VAT is not chargeable on import of a second hand vehicle from an EU country to Ireland.

Thank you, the first paragraph explains the Irish situation.

Regarding Spain, yes, the VAT is itemised. I actually had to do two seperate transfers. One for the vehicle, one for the VAT which will be returned once I show I have registered the vehicle in Ireland. The VAT is 21% in Spain for this transaction.

From what the lady tells me, they need to insure I register the vehicle and look after my tax duties (VRT) in Ireland. Because its a second hand vehicle and does not incur VAT charges, they will refund me the VAT once I prove it has been registered in Ireland. Apparently, if I bought it from them without any VAT and did not register it in Ireland, they would be liable for some kind of payment. So I'm not actually being charged VAT for a second hand purchase, it's more of a deposit to ensure I look after my VRT responsibilities in Ireland.... I think!

Sounds a bit strange unless they refund VAT to the previous owner as a matter of course in Spain, maybe they do, or else it could be a case of the previous owner being VAT registered and renting it out as I mentioned above. The good news is that if you do get a refund, you'll fall between the cracks here. There used to be an anomaly pre brexit where dealer demo cars in the UK could be sold for export ex VAT, once they had 6k on the clock or whatever the threshold was, Irish revenue never charged that VAT even though it was never paid in the UK.

I doubt they refund VAT to the previous owner. That would be ver complicated. I bought it from a company that used it as a rental. Maybe that explains a portion of it it. I'm in Spain now, very drunk, waiting to take it back so whilst I appreciate your knowledge, I won't be able to contribute any more tonight.

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Waterford guy

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Subject:

Re: Paid VAT to import second hand from Spain

 ·  Posted: 06.06.2024  ·  #16

 

 

 

Quote by sprinter

Quote by Waterford guy

Quote by sprinter

Quote by baguette

While VRT has to be paid on imported vehicles, there is no VAT to be paid, unless it's a new vehicle which had been exported VAT free from the country of origin.
I'm not in the trade so I don't know the rules for sales and purchases between VAT registered entities.
I know plenty of individuals who have imported secondhand vehicles from France and Germany and a refund of VAT from the seller, private or trade, never entered the picture.
I think your Spanish seller is maybe a little mixed up regarding the issue.

That would be my thinking also, the price from new is inclusive of vat, and the price, follows it for it's life based on condition and year, so there is always an element of vat in the sale price. No matter where you buy. If you bought a bottle of wine in Germany, France, Spain, there would be vat on it, I don't see anywhere along the line where you would be entitled to it refunded.
But if someone is going to give it to you, grab it with both hands.

I think we agree (although i don't follow your explanation of the VAT following the life cycle of the product, that's a conversation that would be a lot easier in person), but it's confusing. See my reply above to BM.

The reason I'm being given a refund is because I shouldn't actually be charged it in the first place.

when you have it all done , come over to the Hook one weekend and we will happily raise a glass or Two and discuss.
At the end of the day, no one has a reliable explanation for the refund, but what to hell it sounds like you have found a way to get 21% off the price of the Van, congratulations that's a winner

Anyway what did you Buy any Photo's details. when are you home with it.

I might do that, I do love raising a glass or two! I bought a 2019 Sunlight A68. Nothing fancy but it's nice and clean and practical. I'm happy with it.

I'm collecting it now, I'll take my time driving back to Bilbao for the ferry on Sunday. Make a little road trip of it.

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<BM>

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Subject:

Re: Paid VAT to import second hand from Spain

 ·  Posted: 06.06.2024  ·  #17

Looks good, well wear.

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Re: Paid VAT to import second hand from Spain

 ·  Posted: 06.06.2024  ·  #18

Lovely van

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Re: Paid VAT to import second hand from Spain

 ·  Posted: 06.06.2024  ·  #19

Looks great, enjoy

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Subject:

Paid VAT to import second hand from Spain

 ·  Posted: 06.06.2024  ·  #20

Looks a nice one, safe home, enjoy your trip, now don't be giving it bad habits by loading it with Spanish drink.

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RAYZOR

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Re: Paid VAT to import second hand from Spain

 ·  Posted: 07.06.2024  ·  #21

Quote by Waterford guy

I bought from a company in Spain, over here now waiting to drive back. Its second hand 2019 reg. Once I provide evidence of registration in Ireland, they will refund the VAT, so no problem there.

My question is, will the Irish government want me to pay VAT on this? I thought that as its a used vehicle that I will not be subject to VAT in Ireland. Is that correct?

Apologies if this is repeating a previous question. I have spent some time going through previous posts but couldn't find this specific question.

Regards
Waterford Guy

Hi,from my experience and I'm no expert but i did buy my camper in germany a couple yrs back, You won't have to pay vat to the Irish government as you already paid it in Spain to the spanish Dealer,in another eu member state....you only pay vat once...if it was a brand new vehicle you would pay the vat in Ireland and not in Spain,vehicles up to 6 months old and with less the something like 5000km i think are classed as new also....you are actually on a winner though as you have paid the Spanish vat rate of 21% and not the vat rate here of 23%....you will have to pay the dreaded VRT though...you book it into your local NCT centre for inspection and then after a wk or so you'll get a call with how much you owe them....when you pay it they'll give you your new registration number.hope this helps,Happy camping!

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Re: Paid VAT to import second hand from Spain

 ·  Posted: 07.06.2024  ·  #22

Quote by RAYZOR

Quote by Waterford guy

I bought from a company in Spain, over here now waiting to drive back. Its second hand 2019 reg. Once I provide evidence of registration in Ireland, they will refund the VAT, so no problem there.

My question is, will the Irish government want me to pay VAT on this? I thought that as its a used vehicle that I will not be subject to VAT in Ireland. Is that correct?

Apologies if this is repeating a previous question. I have spent some time going through previous posts but couldn't find this specific question.

Regards
Waterford Guy

Hi,from my experience and I'm no expert but i did buy my camper in germany a couple yrs back, You won't have to pay vat to the Irish government as you already paid it in Spain to the spanish Dealer,in another eu member state....you only pay vat once...if it was a brand new vehicle you would pay the vat in Ireland and not in Spain,vehicles up to 6 months old and with less the something like 5000km i think are classed as new also....you are actually on a winner though as you have paid the Spanish vat rate of 21% and not the vat rate here of 23%....you will have to pay the dreaded VRT though...you book it into your local NCT centre for inspection and then after a wk or so you'll get a call with how much you owe them....when you pay it they'll give you your new registration number.hope this helps,Happy camping!

Hey Rayzor,
Yeah you're right, pretty much, except I didn't pay Spanish VAT. Someone did initially, but not me. And thats the way it should be. After talking with them, the way i understand it, they just charged me the equivalent of the Spanish VAT as a kind of insurance / deposit to be sure that I would sort my VRT liabilities when I get to Ireland. Apparently, if I didn't pay tax in Spain and then dodged my VRT in Ireland, they would be liable for some kind d of payment.

Whatever the case, I'm happy enough because the price I thought I was paying in Spain is now less and I'm sure that I won't be subject to VAT in Ireland. Win win. I should have known because I brought one in from NI recently and didn't have to pay VAT either. Just had a momentary lapse of reason at the last minute over here.

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Craic'er

Gender: n/a
Age: 62
Posts: 85
Registered: 02 / 2022
My Motorhome: A big white box
Base Vehicle: https://motorhomeboomers.blogspot.com

Subject:

Re: Paid VAT to import second hand from Spain

 ·  Posted: 27.06.2024  ·  #23

You won't be getting any VAT back ! I do hope I'm wrong but I don't see anywhere in the system where someone who is not VAT registered can apply to have vat returned . If you do find this within system it will open up the market please let us know how you get on.
On another slightly related subject I see that the vat rule on vans sold into the republic form NI has been changed where the van now only has to have been in NI for a reasonable time (3 months was mentioned ) after which it can been sold into the south without incurring any further VAT charges .

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nomadlife

Newbie

Gender:
Location: Ireland
Age: 53
Posts: 1
Registered: 05 / 2024
My Motorhome: Arnold
Base Vehicle: Mercedes

Subject:

Still have vrt

 ·  Posted: 29.06.2024  ·  #24

Hello so the way I am reading into this purchase of yours is that you paid the vat & you will still have to pay the illegal Irish vrt as well. I know you said the vat will be refunded but are you still saving money buying in Spain. I wish many happy days travel in you new camper.

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Liked by: sprinter

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cowboy70

Eat's Sleep's craic

Gender:
Location: Co wicklow
Age: 54
Posts: 672
Registered: 01 / 2015
My Motorhome: Itineo mc740
Base Vehicle: Fiat ducat 2.3/ 9 speed auto 140bhp

Subject:

Re: Paid VAT to import second hand from Spain

 ·  Posted: 05.07.2024  ·  #25

There should be no vat on 2nd hand vehicle
I just brought one in from the north and only payed the vrt

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Liked by: sprinter

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Waterford guy

Love's the Craic

Gender:
Location: Waterford
Age: 37
Posts: 122
Registered: 05 / 2022
My Motorhome: McLouis Nevis 872
Base Vehicle:

Subject:

Re: Paid VAT to import second hand from Spain

 ·  Posted: 05.07.2024  ·  #26

I got the refund back anyway so alls well that ends well.

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Liked by: Albert the Talbot, eirebus, Phil Bert

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