The C1 — is it worth it?

Find the van and if you need the license go for it

Most vans over 3,500kg GVW can be downplated to 3,500kg to increase the potential market when it comes to selling.
I would go for the C1, it broadens what you can buy.

Being of a certain age and initially holding a uk licence I was given a licence with the C1 entitlement which I retained when I swapped it for an Irish licence.

If I wasn’t given the C1 I would definitely chose to add it if I wanted a motorhome.

You have already done your research and found that MHs over 3500kg are normally a bit cheaper. I think the main thing is that when you get round to buying you may see a real beauty and you wouldn’t want to have to pass because it is over 3500kg or buy it but not be able to drive it until you passed the test.

So whilst you are waiting get the C1 under your belt if you end up with a less than 3500 kg MH this time you may fancy a change in a few years.

The big thing for me though is payload on the under 3500kg MHs some are only 200 or 300kgs which might just be the weight of the occupants excluding any kit.

There’s always a good chance that the 20 year old MH which had an ok payload originally has subsequently had a second leisure battery fitted, a solar panel or two, an inverter along with some other mods which all eat into the payload.

It's not expensive to get the C1 licence, unlike the B licence (car) there is no mandatory minimum number of lessons required.
Pick a driving school with a heavy Sprinter, Master or the like and it will be just like driving a regular 3.5t van.
Do get a few lessons to familiarise yourself with the vehicle and to iron out any bad habits before the test.

That reads like two votes for the C1. I may need it for the right van.

One hole in the above suggestions is that obtaining a C1 can take months. Best to have it first, isn't it?





Two more votes in favour, then.





Yes! This is my concern too. We are a family of four, and from my reading around, payload is the hidden reef awaiting many unfortunate and innocent first-time buyers. There's no fun in leaving all the kids' beach gear behind or demanding that everyone empty their bowels prior to boarding, is there? As well as that, grandparents often like to join us for day trips, so we'd be looking for six belted seats if possible. This van will likely get year round (or near year-round) use. We go to the beach and on day trips in winter and summer.



I have been sussing this out and there's a company who provide training for people who are going for the C1 purely for motorhoming. They have a big van and train people in that. To be honest, I love driving, so having an excuse to spend a few bob on van lessons and taking on another driving test is like a birthday present to me. It's odd, I know.



I did have a look down the back of the couch but I was unable to find the additional 15k.

The sole driver thing is a great point, but isn't really an issue for us. My wife has health struggles and so was unlikely to ever be driving the van anyway. In fact, her health issues are one of the big draws of motorhoming for us, if she feels unwell on the road we can pull into a Tesco car park and she can go back and put her head down for an hour. We won't be doing much wild camping either for the same reason. We'll probably lope from site to site, or just go and park up somewhere like Dick's field for a week at a time (we live only just over half an hour away from it), This is about getting the kids outdoors and letting us relax a bit after a hard stretch.

But if anyone else is reading this in the future they should consider this as a limitation of the C1.

Until you get directed to a weighbridge by the Police/Guards

Is having a van uprated an easy thing to do? Because that could be another option if the van was otherwise a great buy.

And from what you have said above about having a van downrated to make it easier to sell, some MHs advertised as B-friendly are now looking suspiciously bulky...

Seriously, now I'm looking into the payload thing a bit more, there are vans for sale out there where you'd need to be on prunes for a week before you climb into the bloody things.

SV tech had the whole market until Van Weight eng came on the scene and are considerably cheaper than SV Tech.
I paid SV £350 for a paper trail upgrade. No mods needed

Increase/decrease your weight, UK.

https://forum.motorhomeparking…&content=8

The guy in the VNT center told me last week that at least half of the motorhomes coming to him are overweight and subsequently can't go trough the test, he also told me his scales is certified twice a year.

That's BS about the scales being certified.

My MH (3,850kg GVW) had to go through the test twice in 2021 because the first time it was tested on the wrong lane, a long story. It passed both times.

Test 1, on the LGV lane
Axle 1 1613kg - Axle 2 1729kg = 3.342kg
Test 2, on the HGV lane
Axle 1 1506kg - axle 2 1486kg = 2,992kg

The tests were 19 days apart and the vehicle was pretty much loaded with the same amount of 'stuff' for both tests.

Test 2 was hugely wrong, the ex-factory weight is 3,100kg, and in my estimation, test 1 was also wrong, I reckon it should have been in the region of 3,500kg or a little more.

The 2022 test shows the weights of Axle 1 1654kg - Alxe 2 1970kg = 3624kg

I have pretty much the same amount of 'stuff' on board for all tests

Have to agree with you Colin,my van has been getting lighter over the last 6 years although I've been leaving more stuff in it each time

I think there will be few finding out they are well overweight if they were tested as they normally use the MH.

I think I’d be very close hence wanting to get my max weight permitted increased.

I have the tyres and now the suspension for a decent increase. Just got to get the paper work done, I suspect this will be the hard bit.

When I was at at Aire at Calnegre near bolnuevo several motorhomes went off to Bascula el Pareton (I think that’s where they went) to get weighed and they all came back saying they were over weight.

It seems that not only are many people driving overweight vans — knowingly or not — the standards for checking them are all over the place.

I know the Irish attitude is "a nod is as good as a wink to a blind horse" but I want to be 100% compliant, as I said above. These things aren't a problem until they suddenly are.

All it takes is — God forbid — a tragic accident involving a MH (and let's face it, you're not much better off in lots of those A-Class vans than you would be wrapped in wet tissue paper) and then you could find weighbridges popping up all over the place.

I'm starting to think that a C1 might be more than a nice option, it might be essential to driving honestly. Especially if we are looking at six berth, six-belt vans. Occupants alone could be 400kg before you bring so much as a ham sandwich on board. Getting a van uprated might be the only practically legal way to drive many "B license" vans on the road.

Good it gets a bit of airtime, but a pity the segment contained a lot of inaccuracies and misconceptions.
I know there's a disclaimer at the beginning that it's a fun podcast with content being the personal views of the presenters, but unfortunately lot of listeners will take guidance from what's presented.

I was the author of the email, and I agree with your reaction, Baguette. I love the two lads, I'm listening to them almost since day one (I think I caught them on about episode two or three), but I was surprised at a few things that they said.

First of all, Aaron said that he did his own experiment with payload and found that with a minimal load and no passengers, he was only ten or fifteen kilos under his upper limit. He then said that practically, legally, all motorhomers should have a C1 licence because everybody is in breach of their weight limit.

Now, that's my concern. That's the whole point. And there's a bit more to that, but I'll come back to in a bit.

Then both he and Chris agreed that if I want to buy a six-berth, six-belt MH then that will put me in the C1 category by default. Now, they may mean that I'll never be under the 3.5T limit with that load, but I don't think so. My understanding is that the meant that all six-berth vans are in the C1 category by class. But that, unfortunately, is not true. Go and check the ads for yourselves. A large proportion (maybe even a majority) of six-berth, six-belt vans are sold as B-licence friendly (where it's mentioned at all).

And I agree with Aaron that this whole mess is over-regulated, and I despise that. I can't stand the constant extension of government bureaucracy and oversight into our daily lives. But this is where we are, and we're stuck with it.

As for up-plating, I don't think vans that are being up-plated need to be modified in every case, or even in most cases. My interest in up-plating has arisen purely from this discussion, which brings me back to Aaron's admission at the start of the segment.

My understanding is that if you are driving a vehicle that is plated at, say, 3850 or 4500kg on a B-licence then you are in breach of the law. So far, so obvious.

I also understand that if your van is plated for, say, 3500kg but comes in over that on a weighbridge, you are in breach of the law even if you have a C1 licence.

That's why I'm starting to think that having an understanding as to how up-plating might be done is useful, because I do not want to find myself in a situation where I may have an accident (or even just be caught at a weighbridge) and find myself explaining my overweight van to a guard at the side of the road with crying children in tow. I'm not willing to run afoul of Murphy's Law and take that chance.

If your van is overweight, or you have the wrong licence, your insurance could be invalid. You could, theoretically, face prosecution. I know everybody ignores these inconvenient facts (and I could sense the discomfort in Aaron's voice as he talked about it) but I can't allow that be be a factor in what I'm doing.

Aaron said that the whole area is a minefield, but it's not. Not really. If you have the correct licence and your van is not over it's weight limit, then you're good to go. It is definitely a minefield, though, if you are overweight or don't have the correct licence to drive your vehicle, because then a whole bunch of things can go wrong very fast.

Sorry about the long post, and I defer to the expertise of everyone here. I'm coming in to this thing completely green, and I want to get it right from the start. If I can be corrected on anything I have written in this post then I eagerly request it, the fewer obstacles between us and legal motorhoming, the better.

May I simplify the issue by using a few scenarios?
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A MH plated at 3,500kg GVW can be driven on a car (B) licence.
If the actual laden weight is in excess of the plated weight (3,500kg) it can still be legally driven on a B licence but the driver may be subject to prosecution for operating an overloaded vehicle. The fine may be dependent on the degree of overloading. For example, I read in a German publication that there if the overloading is not in excess of 5% you may get a talking to, if between 5% and 10%, it's a definite fine, and if it's over 10% your walking home.

Even if you have a C1 Licence the above still applies, it's the plated GVW that governs what weight the vehicle may carry, not the licence.
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A C1 Licence is required if the vehicle is plated over 3,500kg GVW, even if the actual weight is not over 3,500kg.
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Axle Weights. If an axle weight, as listed on the VIN plate is exceeded that is an offence, even if the GVW is not being exceeded
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Uprating. An uprating certificate and new VIN plate can be issued without vehicle modifications provided the new GVW does not exceed the sum of both axles.
Example. Original GVW 3,500kg, Axle 1 (front) rated at 1850kg, Axle 2 (rear) 2120kg. The vehicle can have its GVW uprated to 3970kg without modifications, however, the common uprate undertaken for the foregoing is 3,850kg (=to +10%). to allow for an uneven distribution of load.
Suspension modifications, like the addition of air suspension, may allow additional increases in axle weights and therefore the overall GVW. However, tyre loading ratings will always be a key limiting factor, unless tyres and wheels are upgraded.
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If using a vehicle loaded beyond the GVW (as listed on its VIN plate) but the axles are individually not overloaded you may be prosecuted for operating an overloaded vehicle vis-a-vis the GVW on the VIN plate, but being within the axles' technical design limits there should be no question regarding the vehicle being in an unsafe condition and therefore no impact on insurance coverage.

The lads at The Camping Crew also mentioned towing. I know we don't have caravans but we do tow, so here's the rules.

The holder of a B Licence (car) can tow a trailer with the following provisions
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If the trailer is plated for a TPMLM (Technically Permissible Maximum Laden Mass, which is basically the same as the GVW that is applicable to vehicles), which is over 750kg and the combined TPMLM of the trailer plus the GVW of the towing vehicle does not exceed 3,500kg.
A typical example of this would apply to the average family car and an average family caravan.
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If the trailer is plated for a TPMLM is not over 750kg and the combined TPMLM of the trailer plus the GVW of the towing vehicle does not exceed 4,250kg.
A typical example of this is a 3,500kg motorhome and a small trailer.
Such an outfit is quite common in Europe because it results in the application of car speed limits, car tolls, and other car regulations, in places like Switzerland and Austria and in some countries, while still providing the carrying capability of a 4,250kg GVW vehicle.
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A BE (trailer) Licence is required if the combined outfit exceeds 3,500kg, for example, a large SUV towing a large caravan/trailer. A BE License is required for a 3,500kg GVW Motorhome towing a trailer in excess of 750kg TPMLM.
A C1E Licence is required for a motorhome in excess of 3,500kg GVW towing a trailer in excess of 750kg TPMLM.

Our smaller (than most) Hymer Motorhome has 6 seatbelts and can sleep 6 people.

Its plated up to 3200 and I dont have a C1 license so it can be done but doesnt leave us much room for much else if we cary 6 people.