Weight Plates

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Sean61

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Subject:

Weight Plates

 ·  Posted: 11.04.2022  ·  #1

H all. We recently purchased a Burstner A class and it was down as 3500kg max allowable weight on the Dutch registration but also had 3900kg as the max technical mass on the same document. I didn't think too much off it at the time but it seems the weight plate in the engine bay also has 3900kg as the max weight so I could have some trouble when it comes to the CVRT or god forbid am in an accident.
Surprisingly, the Irish reg came back with 3500kg limit so I think I just need to get new weight plates to keep everything in proper order.

Does anyone know who can do this?

I already emptied the van out and got it weighed at an official weighbridge at 3060kg so downplating shouldn't be a problem.

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eirebus

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Subject:

Re: Weight Plates

 ·  Posted: 12.04.2022  ·  #2

Have you done a CVRT test yet , they'll let you know exactly what the official figures are , and work from there, you may need to do nothing

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baguette

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Subject:

Re: Weight Plates

 ·  Posted: 12.04.2022  ·  #3

Forget The RSA or the CVRT centres, they're not much good at giving straight answers when it comes to motorhome related issues.
Give Joe Nulty a call at Pro Assess he will sort it out for you.
Pro Assess offer a full uprating and down rating service for motorhomes and are well used to dealing with issues like the one you have.
I have no association with either Joe or his company.

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sprinter

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Subject:

Weight Plates

 ·  Posted: 12.04.2022  ·  #4

When is the due to do the CVRT, it would be interesting what they say, as they book them, as car or light truck according to the reg, and logbook info.

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Sean61

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Subject:

Re: Weight Plates

 ·  Posted: 12.04.2022  ·  #5

Quote by baguette

Forget The RSA or the CVRT centres, they're not much good at giving straight answers when it comes to motorhome related issues.
Give Joe Nulty a call at Pro Assess he will sort it out for you.
Pro Assess offer a full uprating and down rating service for motorhomes and are well used to dealing with issues like the one you have.
I have no association with either Joe or his company.

Thanks for that. This is exactly the info I was looking for.
I'll give Joe a call and hopefully I can get it sorted out with minimal effort

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Sean61

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Subject:

Re: Weight Plates

 ·  Posted: 12.04.2022  ·  #6

Quote by sprinter

When is the due to do the CVRT, it would be interesting what they say, as they book them, as car or light truck according to the reg, and logbook info.

I got the Dutch road worthiness test recognised by the CVRT crowd so I don't need to test it until August.
I'm assuming it will book in OK as LGV as it's 3500kg on my log book but I believe they check the weight plates during the test and it might raise a red flag.

The main reason I want to change though is for insurance purposes. I'll bet if I was in a crash and they checked the weight plate it will over rule whatever is in the log book and I might not be covered as I don't have a C1 license.

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Sean61

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Subject:

Re: Weight Plates

 ·  Posted: 12.04.2022  ·  #7

I just got in touch with Joe Nulty and he said whatever is in the log book is what they go off so I shouldn't have any problem which is good news!

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pjwal

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Subject:

Re: Weight Plates

 ·  Posted: 12.04.2022  ·  #8

As a cvrt tester, I can tell you that it is supposed to be tested at the plated weight, regardless of what's stated on the tax book

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eirebus

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Subject:

Re: Weight Plates

 ·  Posted: 12.04.2022  ·  #9

Quote by pjwal

As a cvrt tester, I can tell you that it is supposed to be tested at the plated weight, regardless of what's stated on the tax book

I got a letter a few months ago stating that was the situation alright

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sprinter

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Subject:

Weight Plates

 ·  Posted: 12.04.2022  ·  #10

Quote by pjwal

As a cvrt tester, I can tell you that it is supposed to be tested at the plated weight, regardless of what's stated on the tax book

Please explain, when and where this happens,
If its booked in on the reg, and your advised to bring the logbook,and licence, when I arrive and check in, I'm asked to show my licence, ( I've never been asked for a logbook), and the keys, then a tester walks out and collects the van and while driving Into the test bay starts the test, by first blowing the horn and turning on the indicators on the way in,I have watched it go on the Rolling Road, before the bonnet is lifted. so at what stage does he stop the test, reject the vehicle, and return it outside ?.
On my new m/h, when I checked in, I was asked for my licence and keys, telling, me I was very early, she came out and said, your know your a heavyweight, so presumably, she saw this from the reg.

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baguette

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Subject:

Re: Weight Plates

 ·  Posted: 12.04.2022  ·  #11

Quote by pjwal

As a cvrt tester, I can tell you that it is supposed to be tested at the plated weight, regardless of what's stated on the tax book

That's all very good. However, mine was tested at the wrong plated weight.
The official legal weight of my mh is 3,850kg, as listed on the vehicles CoC, Irish log book, the NVDF and the Rapido (final stage builder) plate.
The tester 'found' the Alko plate (not the final stage builder) which shows 3,500kg and tested at that weight. A knock-on effect was the NVDF got changed in the background.
A total shambles resulting from poor training of the tester or perhaps a lack of understanding on behalf of the trainers about the uprating and downrating of the GVW often applied to motorhomes within their original maximum gross weight specifications of their axles. Not an isolated incident as I've seen other examples of the same 'move'.

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pjwal

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Subject:

Re: Weight Plates

 ·  Posted: 12.04.2022  ·  #12

Quote by sprinter

Quote by pjwal

As a cvrt tester, I can tell you that it is supposed to be tested at the plated weight, regardless of what's stated on the tax book

Please explain, when and where this happens,
If its booked in on the reg, and your advised to bring the logbook,and licence, when I arrive and check in, I'm asked to show my licence, ( I've never been asked for a logbook), and the keys, then a tester walks out and collects the van and while driving Into the test bay starts the test, by first blowing the horn and turning on the indicators on the way in,I have watched it go on the Rolling Road, before the bonnet is lifted. so at what stage does he stop the test, reject the vehicle, and return it outside ?.
On my new m/h, when I checked in, I was asked for my licence and keys, telling, me I was very early, she came out and said, your know your a heavyweight, so presumably, she saw this from the reg.

After you present at reception, the vehicle gets "checked in" using the information prepopulated on the system, then the test will drive it in and aquire information such as the mileage and the various information from the plate or plates, and then accept the test,

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baguette

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Subject:

Re: Weight Plates

 ·  Posted: 12.04.2022  ·  #13

Quote by eirebus

Quote by pjwal

As a cvrt tester, I can tell you that it is supposed to be tested at the plated weight, regardless of what's stated on the tax book

I got a letter a few months ago stating that was the situation alright

So if I understand this correctly, The RSA or their representatives can ignore an official government legal document which is recognised Europe wide as a true and accurate account of a vehicles specification drawn from the vehicles Certificate of Conformity issued by the vehicle final stage builder

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pjwal

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Subject:

Re: Weight Plates

 ·  Posted: 12.04.2022  ·  #14

Quote by baguette

Quote by pjwal

As a cvrt tester, I can tell you that it is supposed to be tested at the plated weight, regardless of what's stated on the tax book

That's all very good. However, mine was tested at the wrong plated weight.
The official legal weight of my mh is 3,850kg, as listed on the vehicles CoC, Irish log book, the NVDF and the Rapido (final stage builder) plate.
The tester 'found' the Alko plate (not the final stage builder) which shows 3,500kg and tested at that weight. A knock-on effect was the NVDF got changed in the background.
A total shambles resulting from poor training of the tester or perhaps a lack of understanding on behalf of the trainers about the uprating and downrating of the GVW often applied to motorhomes within their original maximum gross weight specifications of their axles. Not an isolated incident as I've seen other examples of the same 'move'.

While not defending or fingerpointing in either direction, motorhomes have not been covered in the update courses in 6 or 7 years, so if it's a tester in an area with only a small number of motorhomes to test, he may not remember all the finer details, on the flip side, when a second plate is fitted making changes to the vehicle weights, it is supposed to be fitted beside the original plate so that this is obvious, but instead, the second plate is often fitted in a well hidden area and not noticed at the beginning of the test,

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pjwal

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Subject:

Re: Weight Plates

 ·  Posted: 12.04.2022  ·  #15

Quote by baguette

Quote by eirebus

Quote by pjwal

As a cvrt tester, I can tell you that it is supposed to be tested at the plated weight, regardless of what's stated on the tax book

I got a letter a few months ago stating that was the situation alright

So if I understand this correctly, The RSA or their representatives can ignore an official government legal document which is recognised Europe wide as a true and accurate account of a vehicles specification drawn from the vehicles Certificate of Conformity issued by the vehicle final stage builder

The information on the tax book is populated by customs officers who are not qualified or trained in vehicle weights, and only check the vin number and whatever else is relevant to vrt and other charges, they usually can't even add a vehicle make and model and enter it as "unspecified"

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sprinter

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Subject:

Weight Plates

 ·  Posted: 12.04.2022  ·  #16

Quote by pjwal

Quote by sprinter

Quote by pjwal

As a cvrt tester, I can tell you that it is supposed to be tested at the plated weight, regardless of what's stated on the tax book

Please explain, when and where this happens,
If its booked in on the reg, and your advised to bring the logbook,and licence, when I arrive and check in, I'm asked to show my licence, ( I've never been asked for a logbook), and the keys, then a tester walks out and collects the van and while driving Into the test bay starts the test, by first blowing the horn and turning on the indicators on the way in,I have watched it go on the Rolling Road, before the bonnet is lifted. so at what stage does he stop the test, reject the vehicle, and return it outside ?.
On my new m/h, when I checked in, I was asked for my licence and keys, telling, me I was very early, she came out and said, your know your a heavyweight, so presumably, she saw this from the reg.

After you present at reception, the vehicle gets "checked in" using the information prepopulated on the system, then the test will drive it in and aquire information such as the mileage and the various information from the plate or plates, and then accept the test,

Thanks for that, not necessarily the tester or the station fault, but government sponsored confusion, where no one sings from the same hymn sheet, because they each want and won't give up the power they hold, and we who pay the piper never get to call the tunes. No minister will take the responsibility to bang heads together.

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sprinter

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Subject:

Re: Weight Plates

 ·  Posted: 12.04.2022  ·  #17

I apologise but I can't let that go.

" The information on the tax book is populated by customs officers who are not qualified or trained in vehicle weights, and only check the vin number and whatever else is relevant to vrt and other charges, they usually can't even add a vehicle make and model and enter it as "unspecified" "


The information on my logbook was, gathered by a person imployed in a CVRT center. Are you saying that person is customs, and not trained to do the job, or is it someone in Shannon, who can't transfer that information on to the logbook.?

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pjwal

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Subject:

Re: Weight Plates

 ·  Posted: 12.04.2022  ·  #18

Quote by baguette

Quote by pjwal

As a cvrt tester, I can tell you that it is supposed to be tested at the plated weight, regardless of what's stated on the tax book

That's all very good. However, mine was tested at the wrong plated weight.
The official legal weight of my mh is 3,850kg, as listed on the vehicles CoC, Irish log book, the NVDF and the Rapido (final stage builder) plate.
The tester 'found' the Alko plate (not the final stage builder) which shows 3,500kg and tested at that weight. A knock-on effect was the NVDF got changed in the background.
A total shambles resulting from poor training of the tester or perhaps a lack of understanding on behalf of the trainers about the uprating and downrating of the GVW often applied to motorhomes within their original maximum gross weight specifications of their axles. Not an isolated incident as I've seen other examples of the same 'move'.

Sometime in the future, you might go for a test, and a more up-to-date tester will correct that upwards for you, weather you want it to or not.

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Sean61

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Subject:

Re: Weight Plates

 ·  Posted: 12.04.2022  ·  #19

Quote by pjwal

Quote by baguette

Quote by pjwal

As a cvrt tester, I can tell you that it is supposed to be tested at the plated weight, regardless of what's stated on the tax book

That's all very good. However, mine was tested at the wrong plated weight.
The official legal weight of my mh is 3,850kg, as listed on the vehicles CoC, Irish log book, the NVDF and the Rapido (final stage builder) plate.
The tester 'found' the Alko plate (not the final stage builder) which shows 3,500kg and tested at that weight. A knock-on effect was the NVDF got changed in the background.
A total shambles resulting from poor training of the tester or perhaps a lack of understanding on behalf of the trainers about the uprating and downrating of the GVW often applied to motorhomes within their original maximum gross weight specifications of their axles. Not an isolated incident as I've seen other examples of the same 'move'.

Sometime in the future, you might go for a test, and a more up-to-date tester will correct that upwards for you, weather you want it to or not.

So this is also likely to happen mine if I leave as is?
The tester will update the system with the weight from the plate (3,900kg in this case) and I'll be classified as a HGV?

It seems hard to get a definitive answer on this. I'd happily just get new plates made if that's all it takes, after all, the documentation already has it at 3500kg.

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baguette

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Subject:

Re: Weight Plates

 ·  Posted: 12.04.2022  ·  #20

Quote by pjwal

Quote by baguette

Quote by pjwal

As a cvrt tester, I can tell you that it is supposed to be tested at the plated weight, regardless of what's stated on the tax book

That's all very good. However, mine was tested at the wrong plated weight.
The official legal weight of my mh is 3,850kg, as listed on the vehicles CoC, Irish log book, the NVDF and the Rapido (final stage builder) plate.
The tester 'found' the Alko plate (not the final stage builder) which shows 3,500kg and tested at that weight. A knock-on effect was the NVDF got changed in the background.
A total shambles resulting from poor training of the tester or perhaps a lack of understanding on behalf of the trainers about the uprating and downrating of the GVW often applied to motorhomes within their original maximum gross weight specifications of their axles. Not an isolated incident as I've seen other examples of the same 'move'.

Sometime in the future, you might go for a test, and a more up-to-date tester will correct that upwards for you, weather you want it to or not.

Got a free retest on the heavy lane a couple of weeks later. And, the NVDF also got corrected in the background.
A supervisor in my local road tax office was not at all pleased to hear that The RSA could amend details on their NVDF in the background without going through their normal administration requirements to make such changes.

BTW, the plates on my vehicle are side by side and the tester said he was following recent advice to seek out the lowest plate and override any higher value on the his/her CoVIS terminal

There does seem to be some kind of a game going on at The RSA regarding mh GVW's, maybe it goes back to their refusal to recognise the provisions for a simplified Category C1 driving licence, in EU Directive 2012/36, for those who don't need it to drive for a living,

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pjwal

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Subject:

Re: Weight Plates

 ·  Posted: 12.04.2022  ·  #21

Quote by Sean61

Quote by pjwal

Quote by baguette

Quote by pjwal

As a cvrt tester, I can tell you that it is supposed to be tested at the plated weight, regardless of what's stated on the tax book

That's all very good. However, mine was tested at the wrong plated weight.
The official legal weight of my mh is 3,850kg, as listed on the vehicles CoC, Irish log book, the NVDF and the Rapido (final stage builder) plate.
The tester 'found' the Alko plate (not the final stage builder) which shows 3,500kg and tested at that weight. A knock-on effect was the NVDF got changed in the background.
A total shambles resulting from poor training of the tester or perhaps a lack of understanding on behalf of the trainers about the uprating and downrating of the GVW often applied to motorhomes within their original maximum gross weight specifications of their axles. Not an isolated incident as I've seen other examples of the same 'move'.

Sometime in the future, you might go for a test, and a more up-to-date tester will correct that upwards for you, weather you want it to or not.

So this is also likely to happen mine if I leave as is?
The tester will update the system with the weight from the plate (3,900kg in this case) and I'll be classified as a HGV?

It seems hard to get a definitive answer on this. I'd happily just get new plates made if that's all it takes, after all, the documentation already has it at 3500kg.

The mistake has already been made, the only information available to rectify it is the information on the plates, so if there are 2 plates with different information, if the plate with the unwanted information was not available, then there's no problem.

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baguette

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Subject:

Re: Weight Plates

 ·  Posted: 12.04.2022  ·  #22

Quote by Sean61

Quote by pjwal

Quote by baguette

Quote by pjwal

As a cvrt tester, I can tell you that it is supposed to be tested at the plated weight, regardless of what's stated on the tax book

That's all very good. However, mine was tested at the wrong plated weight.
The official legal weight of my mh is 3,850kg, as listed on the vehicles CoC, Irish log book, the NVDF and the Rapido (final stage builder) plate.
The tester 'found' the Alko plate (not the final stage builder) which shows 3,500kg and tested at that weight. A knock-on effect was the NVDF got changed in the background.
A total shambles resulting from poor training of the tester or perhaps a lack of understanding on behalf of the trainers about the uprating and downrating of the GVW often applied to motorhomes within their original maximum gross weight specifications of their axles. Not an isolated incident as I've seen other examples of the same 'move'.

Sometime in the future, you might go for a test, and a more up-to-date tester will correct that upwards for you, weather you want it to or not.

So this is also likely to happen mine if I leave as is?
The tester will update the system with the weight from the plate (3,900kg in this case) and I'll be classified as a HGV?

It seems hard to get a definitive answer on this. I'd happily just get new plates made if that's all it takes, after all, the documentation already has it at 3500kg.

Are any of the plates date stamped.
Is the 3,500kg plate the Burstner one
Whose name is on the 3,900kg plate.
If your vehicle has two plates one should be the chassis manufacturer plate, either base vehicle or Alko. The other should be the final stage builder, Burstner.
It's the final stage plate which is the legal one. Unless, the vehicle went through an after market uprating or dowrating process. If it did it should have a dated plate carrying the name of the company who carried out the process to clearly show it was a post delivery specification change .

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pjwal

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Subject:

Re: Weight Plates

 ·  Posted: 12.04.2022  ·  #23

Quote by baguette

Quote by Sean61

Quote by pjwal

Quote by baguette

Quote by pjwal

As a cvrt tester, I can tell you that it is supposed to be tested at the plated weight, regardless of what's stated on the tax book

That's all very good. However, mine was tested at the wrong plated weight.
The official legal weight of my mh is 3,850kg, as listed on the vehicles CoC, Irish log book, the NVDF and the Rapido (final stage builder) plate.
The tester 'found' the Alko plate (not the final stage builder) which shows 3,500kg and tested at that weight. A knock-on effect was the NVDF got changed in the background.
A total shambles resulting from poor training of the tester or perhaps a lack of understanding on behalf of the trainers about the uprating and downrating of the GVW often applied to motorhomes within their original maximum gross weight specifications of their axles. Not an isolated incident as I've seen other examples of the same 'move'.

Sometime in the future, you might go for a test, and a more up-to-date tester will correct that upwards for you, weather you want it to or not.

So this is also likely to happen mine if I leave as is?
The tester will update the system with the weight from the plate (3,900kg in this case) and I'll be classified as a HGV?

It seems hard to get a definitive answer on this. I'd happily just get new plates made if that's all it takes, after all, the documentation already has it at 3500kg.

Are any of the plates date stamped.
Is the 3,500kg plate the Burstner one
Whose name is on the 3,900kg plate.
If your vehicle has two plates one should be the chassis manufacturer plate, either base vehicle or Alko. The other should be the final stage builder, Burstner.
It's the final stage plate which is the legal one. Unless, the vehicle went through an after market uprating or dowrating process. If it did it should have a dated plate carrying the name of the company who carried out the process to clearly show it was a post delivery specification change .

I would like to avoid getting caught up in a legal issue and advise anyone to do anything illegal, but I'll just say, that the only information that the tester has available to him is whatever plates are fitted to the vehicle, and before the initial test in the country is the best time to make an alteration, because changing it at a later date will attract attention.

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pjwal

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Subject:

Re: Weight Plates

 ·  Posted: 12.04.2022  ·  #24

Quote by sprinter

I apologise but I can't let that go.

" The information on the tax book is populated by customs officers who are not qualified or trained in vehicle weights, and only check the vin number and whatever else is relevant to vrt and other charges, they usually can't even add a vehicle make and model and enter it as "unspecified" "


The information on my logbook was, gathered by a person imployed in a CVRT center. Are you saying that person is customs, and not trained to do the job, or is it someone in Shannon, who can't transfer that information on to the logbook.?

The information on the tax book is not gathered in a test centre, and any changes made to the information in the test centre is not uploaded to the tax book, it is only used on the day of the test, to test the vehicle, the only departments that can change vehicle information are customs and county council/motor tax, and shannon will generate the tax book using the information sent to them by these 2 departments, shannon will change ownership details but not vehicle details.

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pjwal

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Subject:

Re: Weight Plates

 ·  Posted: 12.04.2022  ·  #25

Quote by pjwal

Quote by sprinter

I apologise but I can't let that go.

" The information on the tax book is populated by customs officers who are not qualified or trained in vehicle weights, and only check the vin number and whatever else is relevant to vrt and other charges, they usually can't even add a vehicle make and model and enter it as "unspecified" "


The information on my logbook was, gathered by a person imployed in a CVRT center. Are you saying that person is customs, and not trained to do the job, or is it someone in Shannon, who can't transfer that information on to the logbook.?

The information on the tax book is not gathered in a test centre, and any changes made to the information in the test centre is not uploaded to the tax book, it is only used on the day of the test, to test the vehicle, the only departments that can change vehicle information are customs and county council/motor tax, and shannon will generate the tax book using the information sent to them by these 2 departments, shannon will change ownership details but not vehicle details.

Just think back there, the information was gathered by an nct centre, who act as authorised agents for customs.

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baguette

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Re: Weight Plates

 ·  Posted: 12.04.2022  ·  #26

@pjwal "The information on the tax book is not gathered in a test centre, and any changes made to the information in the test centre is not uploaded to the tax book, it is only used on the day of the test, to test the vehicle, the only departments that can change vehicle information are customs and county council/motor tax, and shannon will generate the tax book using the information sent to them by these 2 departments, shannon will change ownership details but not vehicle details."
This is not true.
A change to the GVW made by a tester on the RSA CoVIS did update my vehicle details on the National Vehicle and Driver File via a background update from the CoVIS file which carried over the 'new' weight.
If a new Certificate of Registration had been printed it would have had the changed (incorrect) GVW.
Luckily I spotted the shenanigans and got the GVW corrected on the CoVIS data file which then updated the NVDF to its original correct value.

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sprinter

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Subject:

Weight Plates

 ·  Posted: 12.04.2022  ·  #27

Quote by pjwal

Quote by pjwal

Quote by sprinter

I apologise but I can't let that go.

" The information on the tax book is populated by customs officers who are not qualified or trained in vehicle weights, and only check the vin number and whatever else is relevant to vrt and other charges, they usually can't even add a vehicle make and model and enter it as "unspecified" "


The information on my logbook was, gathered by a person imployed in a CVRT center. Are you saying that person is customs, and not trained to do the job, or is it someone in Shannon, who can't transfer that information on to the logbook.?

The information on the tax book is not gathered in a test centre, and any changes made to the information in the test centre is not uploaded to the tax book, it is only used on the day of the test, to test the vehicle, the only departments that can change vehicle information are customs and county council/motor tax, and shannon will generate the tax book using the information sent to them by these 2 departments, shannon will change ownership details but not vehicle details.

Just think back there, the information was gathered by an nct centre, who act as authorised agents for customs.

I think you may have misunderstood, when I brought my van from France, a very knowledgeable and helpful woman, imployed in the NCT center, took all the details and that is what appeared on my new Irish logbook. And she did give me one caveat, to check it was all correct before I accepted it

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mad max

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Re: Weight Plates

 ·  Posted: 12.04.2022  ·  #28

I'm getting the popcorn

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pjwal

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Re: Weight Plates

 ·  Posted: 12.04.2022  ·  #29

Quote by baguette

@pjwal "The information on the tax book is not gathered in a test centre, and any changes made to the information in the test centre is not uploaded to the tax book, it is only used on the day of the test, to test the vehicle, the only departments that can change vehicle information are customs and county council/motor tax, and shannon will generate the tax book using the information sent to them by these 2 departments, shannon will change ownership details but not vehicle details."
This is not true.
A change to the GVW made by a tester on the RSA CoVIS did update my vehicle details on the National Vehicle and Driver File via a background update from the CoVIS file which carried over the 'new' weight.
If a new Certificate of Registration had been printed it would have had the changed (incorrect) GVW.
Luckily I spotted the shenanigans and got the GVW corrected on the CoVIS data file which then updated the NVDF to its original correct value.

I am not here to argue with anyone, that's why we testers very seldom answer questions, because no mater what answers we give, someone always argues, I don't know what happened in your case, but for every test conducted, we enter number of seats, gvw, train weight, axle 1 weight, axle 2 weight, and usually with a camper we have to change the category of test from commercial to private, and these fields are usually prepopulated with random figures before hand and when the same vehicle returns year after year, we have to refill all this same information as its not recorded.
Testers do not have the power to change anything on your registration cert, we can only enter details to conduct the test on the day. I am testing since 2003 and I have never seen or heard of what you discribed.

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pjwal

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Re: Weight Plates

 ·  Posted: 12.04.2022  ·  #30

Quote by sprinter

Quote by pjwal

Quote by pjwal

Quote by sprinter

I apologise but I can't let that go.

" The information on the tax book is populated by customs officers who are not qualified or trained in vehicle weights, and only check the vin number and whatever else is relevant to vrt and other charges, they usually can't even add a vehicle make and model and enter it as "unspecified" "


The information on my logbook was, gathered by a person imployed in a CVRT center. Are you saying that person is customs, and not trained to do the job, or is it someone in Shannon, who can't transfer that information on to the logbook.?

The information on the tax book is not gathered in a test centre, and any changes made to the information in the test centre is not uploaded to the tax book, it is only used on the day of the test, to test the vehicle, the only departments that can change vehicle information are customs and county council/motor tax, and shannon will generate the tax book using the information sent to them by these 2 departments, shannon will change ownership details but not vehicle details.

Just think back there, the information was gathered by an nct centre, who act as authorised agents for customs.

I think you may have misunderstood, when I brought my van from France, a very knowledgeable and helpful woman, imployed in the NCT center, took all the details and that is what appeared on my new Irish logbook. And she did give me one caveat, to check it was all correct before I accepted it

Yes, an nct centre, not a cvrt centre.

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ntg

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Re: Weight Plates

 ·  Posted: 12.04.2022  ·  #31

Ok folks if everyone takes a deep breath surely a bit of discussion can only be good.
Nobody likes to be wrong but on the other hand not everyone can be right.
Sure everyone can learn something from debating scenarios like this.
I am interested to keep reading the posts.

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pjwal

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Re: Weight Plates

 ·  Posted: 12.04.2022  ·  #32

Quote by Sean61

Quote by pjwal

Quote by baguette

Quote by pjwal

As a cvrt tester, I can tell you that it is supposed to be tested at the plated weight, regardless of what's stated on the tax book

That's all very good. However, mine was tested at the wrong plated weight.
The official legal weight of my mh is 3,850kg, as listed on the vehicles CoC, Irish log book, the NVDF and the Rapido (final stage builder) plate.
The tester 'found' the Alko plate (not the final stage builder) which shows 3,500kg and tested at that weight. A knock-on effect was the NVDF got changed in the background.
A total shambles resulting from poor training of the tester or perhaps a lack of understanding on behalf of the trainers about the uprating and downrating of the GVW often applied to motorhomes within their original maximum gross weight specifications of their axles. Not an isolated incident as I've seen other examples of the same 'move'.

Sometime in the future, you might go for a test, and a more up-to-date tester will correct that upwards for you, weather you want it to or not.

So this is also likely to happen mine if I leave as is?
The tester will update the system with the weight from the plate (3,900kg in this case) and I'll be classified as a HGV?

It seems hard to get a definitive answer on this. I'd happily just get new plates made if that's all it takes, after all, the documentation already has it at 3500kg.

Is it a 2 axle or a 3 axle camper?

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baguette

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Subject:

Re: Weight Plates

 ·  Posted: 12.04.2022  ·  #33

Quote by pjwal

Quote by baguette

@pjwal "The information on the tax book is not gathered in a test centre, and any changes made to the information in the test centre is not uploaded to the tax book, it is only used on the day of the test, to test the vehicle, the only departments that can change vehicle information are customs and county council/motor tax, and shannon will generate the tax book using the information sent to them by these 2 departments, shannon will change ownership details but not vehicle details."
This is not true.
A change to the GVW made by a tester on the RSA CoVIS did update my vehicle details on the National Vehicle and Driver File via a background update from the CoVIS file which carried over the 'new' weight.
If a new Certificate of Registration had been printed it would have had the changed (incorrect) GVW.
Luckily I spotted the shenanigans and got the GVW corrected on the CoVIS data file which then updated the NVDF to its original correct value.

I am not here to argue with anyone, that's why we testers very seldom answer questions, because no mater what answers we give, someone always argues, I don't know what happened in your case, but for every test conducted, we enter number of seats, gvw, train weight, axle 1 weight, axle 2 weight, and usually with a camper we have to change the category of test from commercial to private, and these fields are usually prepopulated with random figures before hand and when the same vehicle returns year after year, we have to refill all this same information as its not recorded.
Testers do not have the power to change anything on your registration cert, we can only enter details to conduct the test on the day. I am testing since 2003 and I have never seen or heard of what you discribed.

I'm not here to argue with anyone either, just to relay factually my experience.
1. The tester changed the GVW for my vehicle on the CoVIS terminal at the test centre.
2. A supervisor at my local motor tax office, unprompted, confirmed to me the 'new" incorrect weight on the NVDF.
3. After a second test where the tester changed the weight back to the correct weight on the CoVIS terminal the supervisor at my local tax office confirmed the' new' correct weight.
Only conclusion. The RSA CoVIS database automatically updates the NVDF in the background.
Therefore, testers do have the power, either unintended or otherwise, to effect a change to the NVDF and hence the' log book' details.

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ntg

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Re: Weight Plates

 ·  Posted: 12.04.2022  ·  #34

Confucius reigns.

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JJF

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Re: Weight Plates

 ·  Posted: 12.04.2022  ·  #35

I’ve never seen a system in ROI that runs smoothly, always an issue trying to do the must mundane of tasks that requires doing, on the other hand the UK/NI system seems to have a flowchart that is simply followed and the job gets done. Sad, but that’s the way it seems to be.

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sprinter

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Subject:

Weight Plates

 ·  Posted: 13.04.2022  ·  #36

@pjwal, thanks for your imput, especially since you already know the whole system is a bag of cats, I also hope you know that no one is particularly getting at you, just look at (G) government, everyone of them bitterly fighting their own corner (their arse pocket) maybe NI is better without a working one?.
JJF is correct, nothing works here like it should, the reason I feel is we are a nation of begrudgers, especially those who have a little bit of power over the public, and will never give it up. Rules are made rightly or wrongly, then every branch of officialdom look at it and saw that's not the way we do things, and on it goes, to the guy who is pressing the buttons, and sometimes, he either doesn't know or can't be bothered,. The end results is that Joe public has no chance of finding out the correct rules,
Example.
I asked a chap recently if he changed his all white number pate with script on it after he got his Doe,
Answer,
"No just got a fresh disc last week with those plates on it."

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Sean61

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Re: Weight Plates

 ·  Posted: 21.04.2022  ·  #37

I haven't been online for the past week or 2 so I'm only seeing these posts now.

I've since been in touch with my local CVRT centre and Joe Nulty from Pro Assess.
The CVRT centre say there will be an issue if the weight plate doesn't match the log book and that I should have it rectified before having the van tested.
Joe initially thought this wasn't the case but says he can assist with having the camper plated to 3500kgs.

There are 2x plates in my engine bay, the Fiat one (which is blank) and the ALKO one which is 4000kg (I incorrectly said 3900kg in an earlier post).
I will be downplating to 3500kg to keep everything in order.

Another interesting point to note is that Joe said I wouldn't be able to have this changed to 4000kg again in the future.
I was hoping to have the log book and weight plate changed back up to 4000kg in a year or so when I've completed my C license and would be able to insure it.
Apparently they won't make changes to the log book to change weights for <3500kg vehicles for the past 2 or 3 years.
This is disappointing as the van has been designed to take 4000kg GVW so I thought there would be no issue in getting it changed again.

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baguette

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Re: Weight Plates

 ·  Posted: 21.04.2022  ·  #38

Mine has three plates, the blank FIAT one, the Alko one and the Rapido (final stage builder) one.
You should also have a third plate fitted by the final stage builder.

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sprinter

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Subject:

Weight Plates

 ·  Posted: 21.04.2022  ·  #39

Quote by Sean61

I haven't been online for the past week or 2 so I'm only seeing these posts now.

I've since been in touch with my local CVRT centre and Joe Nulty from Pro Assess.
The CVRT centre say there will be an issue if the weight plate doesn't match the log book and that I should have it rectified before having the van tested.
Joe initially thought this wasn't the case but says he can assist with having the camper plated to 3500kgs.

There are 2x plates in my engine bay, the Fiat one (which is blank) and the ALKO one which is 4000kg (I incorrectly said 3900kg in an earlier post).
I will be downplating to 3500kg to keep everything in order.

Another interesting point to note is that Joe said I wouldn't be able to have this changed to 4000kg again in the future.
I was hoping to have the log book and weight plate changed back up to 4000kg in a year or so when I've completed my C license and would be able to insure it.
Apparently they won't make changes to the log book to change weights for <3500kg vehicles for the past 2 or 3 years.
This is disappointing as the van has been designed to take 4000kg GVW so I thought there would be no issue in getting it changed again.

you say in the your first post,
"Surprisingly, the Irish reg came back with 3500kg limit so I think I just need to get new weight plates to keep everything in proper order. "
Have you actually done any research as to where Burstner may have fitted the builders plate,? on one instruction manual I look at (Page 219) it said, the id plate was fitted in the entrance way, have you searched the Van for it,? because they can be in the oddest places ,have you considered that the person who did the exam for the Irish plates, found the Burstner plate with the correct information stamped on it.?. and there is nothing wrong at all,? maybe see if you can find one. or ask in the VNT center who checked your van if they know where if might be.

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kabundi

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Re: Weight Plates

 ·  Posted: 21.04.2022  ·  #40

My Burstner plate is on the B pillar of the drivers door opening.

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