It's f***ing freezing - Truma Combi Boiler - C2 PCB Troubleshooting

 
 
 
 
 
 
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It's f***ing freezing - Truma Combi Boiler - C2 PCB Troubleshooting

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Posted: 01.04.2022  ·  #1
The story to date...

The Truma Combi Boiler C6002 in our van no worky at all

Brief diagnosis showed that Fuse F1 on the PCB had blown, the fuse type is a 5mm diameter x 20mm 6.3AT (T is slow blow) glass body fuse. Very easily sourced from Radionics, click and collect the same day, pity the problem manifested in Donegal on a double bank holiday weekend. Ah well, we were on a campsite with EHU because our tent camping friends were crazy enough to tent camp in March in Ireland, so EHU and the rooftop aircon unit switched to hot saved the day.

Back on topic, I got a pack of 10 replacement fuses on my return to Dublin and because there was a similar 1.6AT fuse on the board, I got a pack of 10 of those as well, determined to never be caught out like this again. I replaced the blown fuse and turned on the boiler on followed by a bright flash (gotta love glass bodied fuses) and puff it was gone again.

Time to get serious, I removed the PCB to get a closer look. Replacements don't look cheap, if they can be found. A quick visual inspection identified a bit of charring.

 


My initial thoughts were that one or both of the resistors were blown and needed replacing or what I identified as the silver thing beside them might have a problem. I bounced this of an electronics guru that I work with on occasion, he identified the silver thing as a heatsink over a MOSFET, most likely acting as a voltage regulator, he noted that these can fail.


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Re: It's f***ing freeing - Truma Combi Boiler - C2 PCB Troubleshooting

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Posted: 01.04.2022  ·  #2
Flipping over the board you can see 3 pins for the MOSFET and two larger solder joints for the heatsink which I'm presuming to be just a mechanical mount.
 


Multimeter out and the resistance between 2 of the pins was negligible while the resistance between either of these pins and the third pin was quite low as well. I couldn't see any proper identification markings I was strongly suspecting an internal short circuit.


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Re: It's f***ing freezing - Truma Combi Boiler - C2 PCB Troubleshooting

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Posted: 01.04.2022  ·  #3
Next I replaced the fuse and connected a small 9v battery to the DC Input for the board and probed the MOSFET pins to check their voltage relative to the ground, all 3 pins registered at 9v which to my simple mind confirmed the short circuit.


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Re: It's f***ing freezing - Truma Combi Boiler - C2 PCB Troubleshooting

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Posted: 01.04.2022  ·  #4
The soldering iron I had to hand wasn't up to much and the solder joints on the Heatsink were pretty beafy so I just broke it off and I broke the MOSFET off. Multimeter out again and I now have negligible resistance between the positive terminal of the DC input and one contact for the MOSFET, resistance of about 250 Ohms another and the central contact 3kOhms. The board seems to be ok with the MOSFET being the root of the short circuit.

Probing between the pads, both of the outside pins were open loop with the central pin so it all makes sense now, the central pin is ground with the pin registering negligible resistance with the DC Input + is the input voltage while the other pin is the regulated voltage.

The laser marking on the MOSFET was very faded, it took dimmed room lights and a bright light shining at an angle along with some youthful eyes to read the markings, for everyones reference it was a IRF4905 MOSFET. I've ordered a replacement and a couple of spares so the story is to be continued when they arrive...

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Re: It's f***ing freezing - Truma Combi Boiler - C2 PCB Troubleshooting

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Posted: 01.04.2022  ·  #5
Have you ordered the heatsink past and new insulation pad also?


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Re: It's f***ing freezing - Truma Combi Boiler - C2 PCB Troubleshooting

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Posted: 01.04.2022  ·  #6
Check the motor carbon brushes if it’s blown the FET, have seen this condition once before.
Carbon brush cracks/breaks and causes a temp short circuit and blows the FET, it’s good for about 5 amps and the short obviously causes a higher draw than that and blows the transistor.

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Re: It's f***ing freezing - Truma Combi Boiler - C2 PCB Troubleshooting

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Posted: 01.04.2022  ·  #7
Quote by sprinter

Have you ordered the heatsink past and new insulation pad also?


Still trying to find the right heatsink, the existing one broke off at the mounting pins and could be reworked if I can't find the right one. The MOSFET has a small integrated heatsink plate, the heatsink sits over the body of the MOSFET wirh metal to metal contact for heat dissipation.

There is no insulation pad on this board.


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Re: It's f***ing freezing - Truma Combi Boiler - C2 PCB Troubleshooting

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Posted: 01.04.2022  ·  #8
Quote by JJF

Check the motor carbon brushes if it’s blown the FET, have seen this condition once before.
Carbon brush cracks/breaks and causes a temp short circuit and blows the FET, it’s good for about 5 amps and the short obviously causes a higher draw than that and blows the transistor.


Thanks for the tip. Is it the motor for the air blower or is there another motor for the induction system?


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Re: It's f***ing freezing - Truma Combi Boiler - C2 PCB Troubleshooting

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Posted: 01.04.2022  ·  #9
For the main motor.
The air induction motor sits below the main unit in a "clamshell" ... but it only draws about 1 amp and is switched by another little board beside it.

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Re: It's f***ing freezing - Truma Combi Boiler - C2 PCB Troubleshooting

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Posted: 01.04.2022  ·  #10
Quote by JJF

For the main motor.
The air induction motor sits below the main unit in a "clamshell" ... but it only draws about 1 amp and is switched by another little board beside it.


Thanks, will a resistance check across the terminals tell me if there's a short or should I remove it and inspect the brushes?


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Re: It's f***ing freezing - Truma Combi Boiler - C2 PCB Troubleshooting

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Posted: 01.04.2022  ·  #11
I'm on the third PCB. The original started registering a false low voltage and preventing the unit from starting up. The replacement developed a fault which immediately shut off the gas valve, no start up again.
Keeping fingers crossed the third one gives a decent lifespan. At €400 a pop you don't want to be replacing many and now replacements are getting hard to find.

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Re: It's f***ing freezing - Truma Combi Boiler - C2 PCB Troubleshooting

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Posted: 01.04.2022  ·  #12
FETs are very tricky to test in or out of circuit. And you're best using a diode test on your meter. On a working N-channel mosfet like that, you would diode test with red probe on source drain pin and black probe on drain source pin to confirm no current path. Then briefly move red probe to gate pin, to 'turn on' the n-channel. Then move red probe back to the source and confirm current path is now open. It would be no harm to do this test on a new one when it arrives so you know what to expect if you end up taking it out again. Oh and they are very sensitive to static so try not to touch the pins.

 



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Re: It's f***ing freezing - Truma Combi Boiler - C2 PCB Troubleshooting

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Posted: 11.04.2022  ·  #13
Finally got round to taking a look at the motor as suggested

 


@JJF is on the money with the root cause at the motor. The brushes don't look too bad but it looks like the schottky diode (little barrel shaped component} has blown. I think this may be above my pay grade as regards repair of the motor so I need to source the correct replacement motor.

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Re: It's f***ing freezing - Truma Combi Boiler - C2 PCB Troubleshooting

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Posted: 11.04.2022  ·  #14
Post #1 was above my pay grade Bryan 😁 , good luck sourcing the Diode , although is there colour coded rings on them to let you know the size


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Re: It's f***ing freezing - Truma Combi Boiler - C2 PCB Troubleshooting

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Posted: 11.04.2022  ·  #15
Quote by <BM>

Finally got round to taking a look at the motor as suggested

 


@JJF is on the money with the root cause at the motor. The brushes don't look too bad but it looks like the schottky diode (little barrel shaped component} has blown. I think this may be above my pay grade as regards repair of the motor so I need to source the correct replacement motor.


You’ve got a short in one of the commutator ring circuits in the motor.
If you can get me a pic of the motor I may have a second hand one.
The mosfet blown on the board is usually a pretty solid sign of a motor issue.

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Re: It's f***ing freezing - Truma Combi Boiler - C2 PCB Troubleshooting

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Posted: 11.04.2022  ·  #16
Much appreciated, I'll take a photo of it when I get home, it would save me a lot of hassle trying to find one.


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Re: It's f***ing freezing - Truma Combi Boiler - C2 PCB Troubleshooting

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Posted: 11.04.2022  ·  #17
I don't envy you getting spares or paying for them, leisureshopirec are selling Truma parts. A 4mmx12mm bolt&nut for £6.30, talk of a rip off. And their would be postage on top.


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Re: It's f***ing freezing - Truma Combi Boiler - C2 PCB Troubleshooting

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Posted: 11.04.2022  ·  #18
Quote by <BM>

Much appreciated, I'll take a photo of it when I get home, it would save me a lot of hassle trying to find one.


Show measurement details, dia+length and mounting, also spindle dia+length.
if JJF hasn't got a fix, a mortor from something else may work.


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Re: It's f***ing freezing - Truma Combi Boiler - C2 PCB Troubleshooting

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Posted: 11.04.2022  ·  #19
Quote by sprinter

Quote by <BM>

Much appreciated, I'll take a photo of it when I get home, it would save me a lot of hassle trying to find one.


Show measurement details, dia+length and mounting, also spindle dia+length.
if JJF hasn't got a fix, a mortor from something else may work.


The PCB is obviously sensitive to the power draw of the motor so if I have to use a different motor, it may be a case of using the existing power supply from the PCB to switch a relay and use a separate 12v feed to power the motor.


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Re: It's f***ing freezing - Truma Combi Boiler - C2 PCB Troubleshooting

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Posted: 11.04.2022  ·  #20
Quote by <BM>

The PCB is obviously sensitive to the power draw of the motor so if I have to use a different motor, it may be a case of using the existing power supply from the PCB to switch a relay and use a separate 12v feed to power the motor.

Exactly what I was going to suggest. Let the FET switch the relay.
Relay, protected with a 15a fuse, job done.

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Re: It's f***ing freezing - Truma Combi Boiler - C2 PCB Troubleshooting

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Posted: 11.04.2022  ·  #21
 
 
 


Nor much in the way of identifying marks, CF6F on the end cap


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Re: It's f***ing freezing - Truma Combi Boiler - C2 PCB Troubleshooting

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Posted: 12.04.2022  ·  #22
Are you satisfied the motor is dead? It's worth trying a resistance test of the motor windings. Then you could try 12 volts directly to the motor (fused, and only if you're comfortable with 12 volts). At a guess, I would say that diode is to prevent reverse polarity at the motor, but I don't know that for sure. If so it could easily be bypassed for testing with 12V from battery, and the diode itself can easily be tested with your DMM diode test.


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Re: It's f***ing freezing - Truma Combi Boiler - C2 PCB Troubleshooting

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Posted: 12.04.2022  ·  #23
Quote by The Rambler

Are you satisfied the motor is dead? It's worth trying a resistance test of the motor windings. Then you could try 12 volts directly to the motor (fused, and only if you're comfortable with 12 volts). At a guess, I would say that diode is to prevent reverse polarity at the motor, but I don't know that for sure. If so it could easily be bypassed for testing with 12V from battery, and the diode itself can easily be tested with your DMM diode test.


The Diode is more likely to prevent back EMF damaging the PCB when the motor shuts down, there'll be quite a bit of inertia in the impellor wheel. There's been a bits of debris come out of it as well, the windings may be OK but it would need to be rebuilt by someone who knows what they're doing more than I do.


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Re: It's f***ing freezing - Truma Combi Boiler - C2 PCB Troubleshooting

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Posted: 12.04.2022  ·  #24
Quote by <BM>

The Diode is more likely to prevent back EMF damaging the PCB when the motor shuts down, there'll be quite a bit of inertia in the impellor wheel.


That makes sense.

If you're going down the road of replacing, rebuilding the motor, can you be sure the controller is working now? Might it be worth putting a dummy load on it?


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It's f***ing freezing - Truma Combi Boiler - C2 PCB

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Posted: 12.04.2022  ·  #25
Quote by <BM>

Quote by The Rambler

Are you satisfied the motor is dead? It's worth trying a resistance test of the motor windings. Then you could try 12 volts directly to the motor (fused, and only if you're comfortable with 12 volts). At a guess, I would say that diode is to prevent reverse polarity at the motor, but I don't know that for sure. If so it could easily be bypassed for testing with 12V from battery, and the diode itself can easily be tested with your DMM diode test.


The Diode is more likely to prevent back EMF damaging the PCB when the motor shuts down, there'll be quite a bit of inertia in the impellor wheel. There's been a bits of debris come out of it as well, the windings may be OK but it would need to be rebuilt by someone who knows what they're doing more than I do.


There is a guy in tbr UK rebuilding and repairing both the board's and motor's.

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Re: It's f***ing freezing - Truma Combi Boiler - C2 PCB Troubleshooting

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Posted: 12.04.2022  ·  #26
Had a look in the store.
I have one OK, tested as shown below.
Drawing 500mA @ 12 volts so the motor is well within tolerences.
Not the same code as yours but I believe that to be a date code.
PM me if you think it would suffice.



 


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It's f***ing freezing - Truma Combi Boiler - C2 PCB

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Posted: 12.04.2022  ·  #27
@JJF, do you know what the RPM of the Truma motor is.?


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Re: It's f***ing freezing - Truma Combi Boiler - C2 PCB Troubleshooting

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Posted: 12.04.2022  ·  #28
Quote by sprinter

@JJF, do you know what the RPM of the Truma motor is.?

No, but I can measure it with an optical tachometer if you like.

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Re: It's f***ing freezing - Truma Combi Boiler - C2 PCB Troubleshooting

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Posted: 12.04.2022  ·  #29
Good job we have youse boys. This technical stuff is gobblygook to me

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Re: It's f***ing freezing - Truma Combi Boiler - C2 PCB Troubleshooting

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Posted: 12.04.2022  ·  #30
Quote by JJF

Had a look in the store.
I have one OK, tested as shown below.
Drawing 500mA @ 12 volts so the motor is well within tolerences.
Not the same code as yours but I believe that to be a date code.
PM me if you think it would suffice.



 



PM sent. Can you just confirm cost including shipping to Dublin?


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Re: It's f***ing freezing - Truma Combi Boiler - C2 PCB Troubleshooting

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Posted: 12.04.2022  ·  #31
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It's f***ing freezing - Truma Combi Boiler - C2 PCB

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Posted: 12.04.2022  ·  #32
Quote by JJF

Quote by sprinter

@JJF, do you know what the RPM of the Truma motor is.?

No, but I can measure it with an optical tachometer if you like.


Yep, cause if looking for an alternative motor they are mostly sold by the RPM.

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