Diesel Electrical Issue

 
 
 
 
 
gmaritz
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Diesel Electrical Issue

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Posted: 17.07.2020  ·  #1
I would like to consult with the Campervan Gurus regarding a problem I have with my beloved 1994 Fiat Ducato 2,5 tdi base vehicle carrying a Hymer 6 berh :
Throughout the winter I religiously started my van to keep charge in the batteries. One day it just did not want to start, Dead, Faint lights on instrument panel and a scratching sound when you turn the key to start from the relay switches. Battery charged. Earth is good.
Please suggest a solution?


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Re: Mechanical & Technical

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Posted: 17.07.2020  ·  #2
Faint lights and relay noise sounds like battery. how have you checked it for charge?.
could be bad connections take off the pole clamps wire brush /Emory shiny clean, follow the earth lead to chassis same thing clean .

are the lights dim all the time or are they dimming when you turn the key?

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Re: Mechanical & Technical

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Posted: 17.07.2020  ·  #3
Thanks for the advice 🙏🏻


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Re: Mechanical & Technical

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Posted: 30.07.2020  ·  #4
Battery is charged. 6 relays were changed. Light on console shines bright once key is turned. Sometimes a click noise comes from starter. A grinding noise comes from relay switches once key is turned - even after relays were changed. Earth of battery seems sound. Any suggestions please?


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Re: Mechanical & Technical

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Posted: 31.07.2020  ·  #5
I would not start it to charge it but rather just put a smart trickle charger on it. Also I always disconnect my battery earth when the van is not in use - even when parked up at an Aire etc.

I was tortured recently with the clicking and orange heater plug light flashing and changed my heater plug relay. The clicking was worse the more electrical things that were on, heater, radio, wipers etc. It made no difference and the clicking still happened even with the heater plug completely disconnected - van still started ok. Turns out it was another unit up behind the heater plug relay. It is a U shaped plastic thing and there must have been a loose connection or something as my mechanic squeezed it to see if it was loose and the clicking stopped immediately and no issues since. Check up high behind the battery as this thing is mounted on the firewall right up in the top left of the engine bay. Mine is a 1999 Ducato so similar engine bay layout I think.

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Re: Mechanical & Technical

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Posted: 31.07.2020  ·  #6
Quote by gavster1

I would not start it to charge it but rather just put a smart trickle charger on it. Also I always disconnect my battery earth when the van is not in use - even when parked up at an Aire etc.

I was tortured recently with the clicking and orange heater plug light flashing and changed my heater plug relay. The clicking was worse the more electrical things that were on, heater, radio, wipers etc. It made no difference and the clicking still happened even with the heater plug completely disconnected - van still started ok. Turns out it was another unit up behind the heater plug relay. It is a U shaped plastic thing and there must have been a loose connection or something as my mechanic squeezed it to see if it was loose and the clicking stopped immediately and no issues since. Check up high behind the battery as this thing is mounted on the firewall right up in the top left of the engine bay. Mine is a 1999 Ducato so similar engine bay layout I think.


Dodgy chassis/engine earth

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Re: Mechanical & Technical

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Posted: 31.07.2020  ·  #7
Quote


Dodgy chassis/engine earth


I would suspect something like that.


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Re: Mechanical & Technical

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Posted: 01.08.2020  ·  #8
What age is the battery. Might need changed or get it tested.


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Re: Mechanical & Technical

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Posted: 01.08.2020  ·  #9
The battery is good (Amp output Ok).The earth is ok. I replaced all the relays ( generic units, they are all the same not so?) - same symptoms remain. Checked current from battery — to solonoid in switched off position and there are current (12.59A) switched on (12.05). I now plan to remove the starter to see if it isn’t full of water...


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Re: Mechanical & Technical

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Posted: 01.08.2020  ·  #10
I think you mean 12.59 VOLTS, not AMPS. If this is the voltage from the battery, when it is, supposedly, fully charged, Then your battery is the problem. Fully charged it should be giving 13.8 - 14.4 Volts. The "Chattering" is due to low voltage.

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Mechanical & Technical

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Posted: 01.08.2020  ·  #11
I'm sure you mean volts not amps.
check that the connections are sound on the starter, the small lead remove it and check the voltage from it to earth when the key is turned to start. also check the large connections, the one from the battery to the solenoid and the one from the solenod to the starter, are clean and tight.

what is the voltage drop on the big connection on the solenoid when you turn the key to start ?.
have you someone local to check the starter when you take it out.

Sorry @ Stoney. but that is the reading you will get with the engine running . (13.8 to 14.4 )
The standing voltage of a charged battery is around 12.6volts.

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Re: Mechanical & Technical

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Posted: 01.08.2020  ·  #12
Thank you very much for the advice gentlemen. As usual you are correct : it is volts not amps. I had the battery tested and the output amps is 680 out of 760 Amps. There is a voltage drop on the small wire on the solonoid once the key is turned. Does that mean anything at all?


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Re: Mechanical & Technical

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Posted: 01.08.2020  ·  #13
A drop in voltage would be normal when attempting to start a vehicle as the current demand from the starter motor can be quite high.
I am sure that you have another vehicle, so why don't you try Jump Starting the motorhome. If it works then you will know that the battery is definitely the problem.
The figures you quote mean that your battery is at less than 90% capacity and this will drop further when you put it under load.


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Re: Mechanical & Technical

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Posted: 01.08.2020  ·  #14
Quote by sprinter

I'm sure you mean volts not amps.
check that the connections are sound on the starter, the small lead remove it and check the voltage from it to earth when the key is turned to start. also check the large connections, the one from the battery to the solenoid and the one from the solenod to the starter, are clean and tight.

what is the voltage drop on the big connection on the solenoid when you turn the key to start ?.
have you someone local to check the starter when you take it out.

Sorry @ Stoney. but that is the reading you will get with the engine running . (13.8 to 14.4 )
The standing voltage of a charged battery is around 12.6volts.


Thanks Sprinter, just having a Senior moment, you are, of course correct and the "Standing Charge" would be more like 12.6 - 12.9 volts.


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Mechanical & Technical

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Posted: 01.08.2020  ·  #15
when its trying to do its job you will get a drop.
Have you jump leads ? one lead only, connect your black lead from the body of the starter, make a good connection to the metal, the other end to the battery - negative, earth black, ( there should be no arcing or spark).
Doing this will eliminate, the bad engine to chassis to battery question.
( if it starts then you have an earth problem.)
Turn the key to start and measure the voltage on the wire going into the starter from the solenoid.try this a few times and check the small wire for heat.

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Re: Mechanical & Technical

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Posted: 03.08.2020  ·  #16
Did that - still no start and same sound from two relay switches


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Re: Mechanical & Technical

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Posted: 03.08.2020  ·  #17
Need to get starter tested
Can you access the starter easily?
Try tapping with a bar or hammer whilst attempting to crank over


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Re: Mechanical & Technical

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Posted: 05.08.2020  ·  #18
I replaced the starter & solonoid and fitted another earth strap. Still same symptoms. Battery is good. Earth seems good. Starter is new. Faint scratching from relays and loud clapping sound from starter area. Any suggestions?


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Diesel Electrical Issue

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Posted: 05.08.2020  ·  #19
is your engine actually turning over.
is there any possibility that you have a seized engine . is the belt ok.


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Re: Diesel Electrical Issue

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Posted: 05.08.2020  ·  #20
I really think you need to have someone experienced check it out.
We’re grasping at straws suggesting fixes, one thing that shouldn’t be done is to replace parts without a thorough diagnosis, that advice is from someone with 30+ years in the motor industry.
There is tests than can be done to establish the concern, explaining it via a forum isn’t easy and can lead to a wrong diagnosis.
Sounding like a possible ring-gear/pinion concern, but as I said that is really a guess on the explained symptoms.

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Re: Diesel Electrical Issue

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Posted: 05.08.2020  ·  #21
Back to earths,
I have a similar vehicle and there are 4 main earth points that I would check.
1 Behind the engine battery
2 on other wing on passenger side near washer bottle
3 gearbox to chassis on passenger side
4 on the driver side footwell on right hand drive models below the dash.

Check and clean to see if you can get better connections to your relays


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Re: Diesel Electrical Issue

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Posted: 05.08.2020  ·  #22
Quote by sprinter

is your engine actually turning over.
is there any possibility that you have a seized engine . is the belt ok.


Put the van into a high gear, and push back and forward, is the engine turning??


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Re: Diesel Electrical Issue

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Posted: 05.08.2020  ·  #23
Have you tried towing to start?


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